Leova/Kischinew - Stabskompanie schwere Heeres-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 93

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    • Hello, Hanna!

      Hanna Hartmann schrieb:

      Hallo Igor, only one question, whom do you mean with "main character" ... von Knobelsdorff?
      No, the “main character” is not von Knobelsdorf.

      This is an officer who worked for the Office of Wolfram Sievers. This officer was looking for historical artifacts along the line Bessarabia - Crimea - Northern Caucasus. In 1944, when he was evacuated from Odessa, he was shot down on a light-engine aircraft, and accidentally came to von Knobelsdorf. For several reasons, this officer remained in the 6th German Army from April 1944 to the end of August 1944.
      Interestingly, he also met a girl - she was German colonist and saved him from death. Received permission to marry her, and in August, 44 was separated from her, and never met her again. WAR-WAR-LOVE-WAR E.t.c. :)

      Regards,

      Igor
    • Hallo Igor

      yes, if it is possible to get a copy of the documents from the prisoner of war camp, that would be great. It´s like a big hole in our family history, my grandma died in 2012, but neither she or my father talked about him. Hans Tursky was a driver for the Post-Office in Potsdam, coming from Königsberg. My father is born 1938 in Potsdam. Then his father joined the Wehrmacht. The younger brother of my Grandmother said, he can remember, that Hans Tursky visited my Grandmother and the family in Silesia in 1943 (?) on his holidays for three or four days. But he was coming with a truck, he should bring to the Eastern front. And he said, that my grandma was waiting about ten years since the marriage, that he comes back, to live with her a "normal life". And then, he returns to her, living in a refugee camp in Bavaria with a Russian girl. The other thing, the younger brother remembers, that my grandfather was "driving like hell" with this truck through Bad Salzbrunn. He said, he was vomiting in the car, but my father (the boys were about six and eight years old) liked this two days with his father very much. Then Hans Tursky disappeared to the Eastern Front and returned nearly five years later, End of 1947.

      All I now about Olga is from this paper, my grandfather wrote to the Government in 1955 and a second paper from Munich Administration, where they said, that he worked as a driver for Circus Krone until he retired, but I have to wait until 2030, to get this paper. Hans Tursky and Olga lived in Munich until they both died. They had no children. I don´t know, if Olga was an ethnic German. My Grandma only said "this Russian woman". Olga was born in Leningrad/St. Petersburg and was also divorced, when she met my Grandfather.

      Your question "how can she be released from the USSR?" is the same, I´m asking too. First, I was thinking, may be Olga was a forced laborer, and was brought to Germany and they met here? But the same problem, I don´t know anything. When I was young, I believed until 1973, that Theo (my step grandfather) is my Grandfather. He was a very nice person. So I didn´t ask.

      You write "It is likely that the decision on Olga was taken in the Ministry of State Security." ... wow, really? I was only thinking, that it must be difficult to fall in love with a German soldier and then go with him to Germany. I don´t even know, if the story happened like this. I don´t know, if my Grandfather met her in Russia. It it like a big big hole in the history of my family. They tell a lot of stories, but most of them don´t fit to each other.

      You wrote "I have a unique book in 2 volumes on German soldiers who died and captured in Bessarabia." wow ...It would be great, if you have the time, to have a look in this book about him, if you go to Chisinau,

      thank you very very much for all.

      Hanna
    • Hello, Hanna!

      Since your grandfather was released in 1947 and survived, his documents are stored in this section:

      ACCOUNTING CASES ON MILITARY AND FORECASTED FOREIGN CITIZENS DURING AND AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR IN THE CAMP OF THE NKVD-MVD USSR
      Accounting cases on ex-Western army liberated prisoners of war

      Fund 460p, 1919017 storage units, 1941 - 1969

      Some more interesting details on prisoners of war:
      Most of the prisoners were released in the early 50s. Exemption in 1947 was an exception to the rule.
      1. In March 1947, the repatriation of a contingent of prisoners of war with a total of 6,680 people from among those working in enterprises of the Ministry of Ferrous Metallurgy of the Stalin, Dnepropetrovsk and Voroshilovgrad regions began.
      2. In April 1947, the same contingent of repatriates added to 23,000 people from the western regions of the country who worked in the coal industry. The Council of Ministers of the USSR considered this question and adopted a resolution on it dated March 14, 1947 No. 1022-305ss. Prisoners from the Ukrainian, Estonian, Georgian Republics repatriated. Tula, Moscow and Novgorod regions. By the way, if the document contains the letters "SS", then this decree is classified as "top secret". Only those who worked very well were released.
      3. Based on Resolution No. 1571-414ss of the USSR Council of Ministers dated May 16, 1947 and Order No. 00535 of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs No. 00535 dated May 20, 1947, sick and disabled prisoners of war of the former German army — the Germans held in camps of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, special hospitals, workers battalions of the Ministry of the Armed Forces of the USSR, including officers from lieutenant to captain, sick and disabled interned Germans from working battalions of ministries. This contingent numbered 113,000 people, of whom interned - 13,000 people.
      4. In the summer of 1947, the repatriation of Austrian prisoners of war remaining in the USSR (20,000 people), Romanians (36,000 people), Poles, Yugoslavs, Czechoslovakians and others, as well as participants (prisoners of war) of the anti-fascist activists continued. The last contingent numbered 1,500 people, and, as noted in Directive of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs No. 119 of June 13, 1947, the shipment was carried out on special personal lists.
      5. In September 1944, the decision was made to repatriate sick prisoners of war, the contents of which were unprofitable for the country's budget. The USSR Council of Ministers, in response to a request from the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, issued Order No. 3545-1167ss, in which it wrote: "The repatriation of the said German prisoners of war to be made in October 1947 in the amount of 25,000 people and from November 1947 to March 1948 15,000 people each month ... "
      6. The military command, the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs often went to meet the requests of German citizens, in which they asked to release their relatives from captivity. In October 1947, 70 such applications were received by the Office of Repatriation Affairs. These petitions were reviewed by the 3rd European Department of the USSR Foreign Ministry and supported. V.Molotov approved this proposal. All the German prisoners of war listed on the list were repatriated.

      Regards,

      Igor
    • Hello, Hanna

      I asked a friend to take a picture of the book about which I told you. Here are some photos. In addition, I asked him to look at the documents of your grandfather in the archives of Moldova. Maybe there is something ... I don't know.

      Regards,

      Igor
      Dateien
      • PRIZONIERII_1.jpg

        (150,22 kB, 7 mal heruntergeladen, zuletzt: )
      • PRIZONIERII_2.jpg

        (103,47 kB, 9 mal heruntergeladen, zuletzt: )
      • PRIZONIERII_3.jpg

        (172,66 kB, 12 mal heruntergeladen, zuletzt: )
    • Hanna, Hello!

      Here is the place where there was a branch of the camp for prisoners of war №144 (Voroshilovgrad). In your document, the city is indicated with an error - instead of Kajewka, you must write Kadjewka.
      Until 1937, the city was called Kadjewka. In 1937–1943 Sergo was named after Sergo Ordzhonikidze. In 1943-1978 wore the former name Kadjewka. In 1978, named for A. G. Stakhanov.
      Currently it is called Kadjewka.

      Regards,

      Igor
      Dateien
    • synergy schrieb:

      Hello, Hanna

      I asked a friend to take a picture of the book about which I told you. Here are some photos. In addition, I asked him to look at the documents of your grandfather in the archives of Moldova. Maybe there is something ... I don't know.

      Regards,

      Igor

      Oh, Igor, that is a big surprise. Please,if it is possible, can your fried look in the book, if he can find the name "Hans Tursky"?

      I feel very excited ... I was in Kishinau last Easter in 2018 ... and I felt close to history, when I visited the memorial of eternity. I felt glad, that war has ended in 1945, and I don´t have to live in fascism today. Therefore I feel thankful, either to the Russian Army, but also to the US-Forces ans all other European Soldiers.

      thank you

      Hanna
    • Good afternoon Hanna

      I asked an officer from Police Academy of Moldova to look in the archives for a POW registration card for your grandfather.
      If the search is successful - you will receive a copy of the card.
      The search in the book is very long because it is more than 1000 sheets with a hundred names on each sheet.
      In addition, the book may contain only the name, date of captivity and the number of the transfer camp. In the card information will be more. Perhaps there is a photo. I'm not sure about that, but anything is possible.
      We are waiting for the result.

      Regards,

      Igor
    • Good day, Hanna!

      Today I talked to the archive on your grandfather.
      In the coming days, fill out all the forms for him and send a request. But the matter is complicated by the fact that some of the data on prisoners of war may be located in Ukraine. It was there that he was in the camp in 1944-1947. If there is no personal file for your grandfather in Moscow, then it will be necessary to write to Kiev.
      In addition, the response to the request lasts for 3 months.

      That's all I can tell you. In the lists of prisoners in Chisinau, your grandfather as a German by nationality was not found.
      You must understand. that the spelling and pronunciation of German first and last names in Russian may differ. This is due to the fact that the clerk, who filled out the questionnaire in 1944, perceived the name and surname. And this also complicates the matter. One wrong letter and search can give a negative result.

      Regards,

      Igor
    • Neu

      synergy schrieb:

      Good day, Hanna!

      Today I talked to the archive on your grandfather.
      In the coming days, fill out all the forms for him and send a request. But the matter is complicated by the fact that some of the data on prisoners of war may be located in Ukraine. It was there that he was in the camp in 1944-1947. If there is no personal file for your grandfather in Moscow, then it will be necessary to write to Kiev.
      In addition, the response to the request lasts for 3 months.

      That's all I can tell you. In the lists of prisoners in Chisinau, your grandfather as a German by nationality was not found.
      You must understand. that the spelling and pronunciation of German first and last names in Russian may differ. This is due to the fact that the clerk, who filled out the questionnaire in 1944, perceived the name and surname. And this also complicates the matter. One wrong letter and search can give a negative result.

      Regards,

      Igor

      Hallo Igor

      thank you very very much. Do you need any more data of my Grandfather? His Name ist sometimes written Hans-Joachim Tursky (sometimes only Hans), he was born Königsberg (Kaliningrad) on 14th of December 1912 (Nr. 2994/1912). (He died on the 5th of March 1984 in Munich). His girlfried and second wife Olga Bayer was born as Olga Elving (katholic) on the 6th of December 1912 in Leningrad/St. Petersburg and was working as a dressmaker/seamstress.

      May be Moscow, may be Kiev ... even if it lasts three month or a bit longer ... after such a long time (nearly 75 years), we will wait and see what will happen.

      And sorry, when you have so much work with my question. If I can help you, please ask.

      Thanks a lot

      Hanna
    • Neu

      Hello Hanna!

      If this summer I’m in Chisinau, I’ll try to scan 2 volumes of a reference book on prisoners and those who died in the battles in Bessarabia 1944.
      Results can be downloaded in PDF. I do not promise with a 100% guarantee, but I will try.
      This is data from the archives of the Republic of Moldova.

      Regards,

      Igor