Hans Tursky, Gefreiter

    Hello, Hanna!

    Zitat von Hanna Hartmann

    Hallo Igor, only one question, whom do you mean with "main character" ... von Knobelsdorff?

    No, the “main character” is not von Knobelsdorf.


    This is an officer who worked for the Office of Wolfram Sievers. This officer was looking for historical artifacts along the line Bessarabia - Crimea - Northern Caucasus. In 1944, when he was evacuated from Odessa, he was shot down on a light-engine aircraft, and accidentally came to von Knobelsdorf. For several reasons, this officer remained in the 6th German Army from April 1944 to the end of August 1944.
    Interestingly, he also met a girl - she was German colonist and saved him from death. Received permission to marry her, and in August, 44 was separated from her, and never met her again. WAR-WAR-LOVE-WAR E.t.c. :)


    Regards,


    Igor

    Hallo Igor


    yes, if it is possible to get a copy of the documents from the prisoner of war camp, that would be great. It´s like a big hole in our family history, my grandma died in 2012, but neither she or my father talked about him. Hans Tursky was a driver for the Post-Office in Potsdam, coming from Königsberg. My father is born 1938 in Potsdam. Then his father joined the Wehrmacht. The younger brother of my Grandmother said, he can remember, that Hans Tursky visited my Grandmother and the family in Silesia in 1943 (?) on his holidays for three or four days. But he was coming with a truck, he should bring to the Eastern front. And he said, that my grandma was waiting about ten years since the marriage, that he comes back, to live with her a "normal life". And then, he returns to her, living in a refugee camp in Bavaria with a Russian girl. The other thing, the younger brother remembers, that my grandfather was "driving like hell" with this truck through Bad Salzbrunn. He said, he was vomiting in the car, but my father (the boys were about six and eight years old) liked this two days with his father very much. Then Hans Tursky disappeared to the Eastern Front and returned nearly five years later, End of 1947.


    All I now about Olga is from this paper, my grandfather wrote to the Government in 1955 and a second paper from Munich Administration, where they said, that he worked as a driver for Circus Krone until he retired, but I have to wait until 2030, to get this paper. Hans Tursky and Olga lived in Munich until they both died. They had no children. I don´t know, if Olga was an ethnic German. My Grandma only said "this Russian woman". Olga was born in Leningrad/St. Petersburg and was also divorced, when she met my Grandfather.


    Your question "how can she be released from the USSR?" is the same, I´m asking too. First, I was thinking, may be Olga was a forced laborer, and was brought to Germany and they met here? But the same problem, I don´t know anything. When I was young, I believed until 1973, that Theo (my step grandfather) is my Grandfather. He was a very nice person. So I didn´t ask.


    You write "It is likely that the decision on Olga was taken in the Ministry of State Security." ... wow, really? I was only thinking, that it must be difficult to fall in love with a German soldier and then go with him to Germany. I don´t even know, if the story happened like this. I don´t know, if my Grandfather met her in Russia. It it like a big big hole in the history of my family. They tell a lot of stories, but most of them don´t fit to each other.


    You wrote "I have a unique book in 2 volumes on German soldiers who died and captured in Bessarabia." wow ...It would be great, if you have the time, to have a look in this book about him, if you go to Chisinau,


    thank you very very much for all.


    Hanna

    Hello, Hanna!


    Since your grandfather was released in 1947 and survived, his documents are stored in this section:


    ACCOUNTING CASES ON MILITARY AND FORECASTED FOREIGN CITIZENS DURING AND AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR IN THE CAMP OF THE NKVD-MVD USSR
    Accounting cases on ex-Western army liberated prisoners of war


    Fund 460p, 1919017 storage units, 1941 - 1969


    Some more interesting details on prisoners of war:
    Most of the prisoners were released in the early 50s. Exemption in 1947 was an exception to the rule.
    1. In March 1947, the repatriation of a contingent of prisoners of war with a total of 6,680 people from among those working in enterprises of the Ministry of Ferrous Metallurgy of the Stalin, Dnepropetrovsk and Voroshilovgrad regions began.
    2. In April 1947, the same contingent of repatriates added to 23,000 people from the western regions of the country who worked in the coal industry. The Council of Ministers of the USSR considered this question and adopted a resolution on it dated March 14, 1947 No. 1022-305ss. Prisoners from the Ukrainian, Estonian, Georgian Republics repatriated. Tula, Moscow and Novgorod regions. By the way, if the document contains the letters "SS", then this decree is classified as "top secret". Only those who worked very well were released.
    3. Based on Resolution No. 1571-414ss of the USSR Council of Ministers dated May 16, 1947 and Order No. 00535 of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs No. 00535 dated May 20, 1947, sick and disabled prisoners of war of the former German army — the Germans held in camps of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, special hospitals, workers battalions of the Ministry of the Armed Forces of the USSR, including officers from lieutenant to captain, sick and disabled interned Germans from working battalions of ministries. This contingent numbered 113,000 people, of whom interned - 13,000 people.
    4. In the summer of 1947, the repatriation of Austrian prisoners of war remaining in the USSR (20,000 people), Romanians (36,000 people), Poles, Yugoslavs, Czechoslovakians and others, as well as participants (prisoners of war) of the anti-fascist activists continued. The last contingent numbered 1,500 people, and, as noted in Directive of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs No. 119 of June 13, 1947, the shipment was carried out on special personal lists.
    5. In September 1944, the decision was made to repatriate sick prisoners of war, the contents of which were unprofitable for the country's budget. The USSR Council of Ministers, in response to a request from the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, issued Order No. 3545-1167ss, in which it wrote: "The repatriation of the said German prisoners of war to be made in October 1947 in the amount of 25,000 people and from November 1947 to March 1948 15,000 people each month ... "
    6. The military command, the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs often went to meet the requests of German citizens, in which they asked to release their relatives from captivity. In October 1947, 70 such applications were received by the Office of Repatriation Affairs. These petitions were reviewed by the 3rd European Department of the USSR Foreign Ministry and supported. V.Molotov approved this proposal. All the German prisoners of war listed on the list were repatriated.


    Regards,


    Igor

    Hello, Hanna


    I asked a friend to take a picture of the book about which I told you. Here are some photos. In addition, I asked him to look at the documents of your grandfather in the archives of Moldova. Maybe there is something ... I don't know.


    Regards,


    Igor

    Hanna, Hello!


    Here is the place where there was a branch of the camp for prisoners of war №144 (Voroshilovgrad). In your document, the city is indicated with an error - instead of Kajewka, you must write Kadjewka.
    Until 1937, the city was called Kadjewka. In 1937–1943 Sergo was named after Sergo Ordzhonikidze. In 1943-1978 wore the former name Kadjewka. In 1978, named for A. G. Stakhanov.
    Currently it is called Kadjewka.


    Regards,


    Igor


    Oh, Igor, that is a big surprise. Please,if it is possible, can your fried look in the book, if he can find the name "Hans Tursky"?


    I feel very excited ... I was in Kishinau last Easter in 2018 ... and I felt close to history, when I visited the memorial of eternity. I felt glad, that war has ended in 1945, and I don´t have to live in fascism today. Therefore I feel thankful, either to the Russian Army, but also to the US-Forces ans all other European Soldiers.


    thank you


    Hanna

    Good afternoon Hanna


    I asked an officer from Police Academy of Moldova to look in the archives for a POW registration card for your grandfather.
    If the search is successful - you will receive a copy of the card.
    The search in the book is very long because it is more than 1000 sheets with a hundred names on each sheet.
    In addition, the book may contain only the name, date of captivity and the number of the transfer camp. In the card information will be more. Perhaps there is a photo. I'm not sure about that, but anything is possible.
    We are waiting for the result.


    Regards,


    Igor

    Good day, Hanna!


    Today I talked to the archive on your grandfather.
    In the coming days, fill out all the forms for him and send a request. But the matter is complicated by the fact that some of the data on prisoners of war may be located in Ukraine. It was there that he was in the camp in 1944-1947. If there is no personal file for your grandfather in Moscow, then it will be necessary to write to Kiev.
    In addition, the response to the request lasts for 3 months.


    That's all I can tell you. In the lists of prisoners in Chisinau, your grandfather as a German by nationality was not found.
    You must understand. that the spelling and pronunciation of German first and last names in Russian may differ. This is due to the fact that the clerk, who filled out the questionnaire in 1944, perceived the name and surname. And this also complicates the matter. One wrong letter and search can give a negative result.


    Regards,


    Igor


    Hallo Igor


    thank you very very much. Do you need any more data of my Grandfather? His Name ist sometimes written Hans-Joachim Tursky (sometimes only Hans), he was born Königsberg (Kaliningrad) on 14th of December 1912 (Nr. 2994/1912). (He died on the 5th of March 1984 in Munich). His girlfried and second wife Olga Bayer was born as Olga Elving (katholic) on the 6th of December 1912 in Leningrad/St. Petersburg and was working as a dressmaker/seamstress.


    May be Moscow, may be Kiev ... even if it lasts three month or a bit longer ... after such a long time (nearly 75 years), we will wait and see what will happen.


    And sorry, when you have so much work with my question. If I can help you, please ask.


    Thanks a lot


    Hanna

    Hello Hanna!


    If this summer I’m in Chisinau, I’ll try to scan 2 volumes of a reference book on prisoners and those who died in the battles in Bessarabia 1944.
    Results can be downloaded in PDF. I do not promise with a 100% guarantee, but I will try.
    This is data from the archives of the Republic of Moldova.


    Regards,


    Igor

    Hallo,


    mein Opa hat in der gleichen Kompanie gedient (Stabskompanie). Er, Hermann Geiger geb. am 06.09.1910 wurde am 11.09.1943 in die Stabskompanie der Heeres-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 93 versetzt.
    Seit dem 20 August 1944 gilt er als vermisst.
    Ein ehemaliger Kamerad wurde über den Suchdienst des Roten Kreuz ausfindig gemacht, der 1959 meiner Oma einen Brief schrieb. Von im ist die letzte Nachricht über meinen Großvater.
    Den Brief kann ich bei Interesse gerne weiterleiten.
    Mein Mutter ist inzwischen 75 Jahre, sie hat ihren Vater nie zu Gesicht bekommen hat, wünscht sich einmal den Ort zu besuchen, an dem Ihr Vater zuletzt war.
    Jetzt werden meine Geschwister und ich gemeinsam mit unserer Mutter im Juni nach Moldawien Reisen, um Ihr diesen Wunsch zu erfüllen.
    Ich bin schon länger am recherchieren, wo die Einheit zuletzt eingesetzt wurde, beziehungsweise stationiert war.
    Durch Hanna Hartmanns Beitrag und eure Informationen hab ich sehr gute Informationen erhalten.
    Mir ist klar, das wir durch unsere Reise nichts zur Aufklärung über den verbleib unseres Opas herausfinden werden, genau so bewusst ist uns, das er auch in einem Russischen Gefangenenlager ums Leben gekommen sein könnte.
    Durch Igors Tipp haben wir auch schon noch Moldawien geschrieben, um Informationen über das Buch zu erhalten bzw. ob man nach im in dem Buch suchen kann. Das war vor über 4 Wochen. Eine Antwort haben wir noch nicht erhalten. Wir werden versuchen, wenn wir in Chisinau sind, selber in dem Buch zu Suchen.
    Jetzt habe ich ein paar Fragen, bzw. vielleicht kann mir jemand helfen.
    - Ich suche genaue Orte, wo die Einheit gelagert und gekämpft hat.
    - Gibt es noch irgendeine hinterlassenschaft der Einheit (Panzerwrack, Bunker usw.)
    - Alle Informationen über die Einheit in der Zeit vom September 1943- August 1944
    - Einen Kontakt zu einem Einheimischen, der uns zu den herumführen kann.
    Freue mich über jede Info.


    Viele Grüße
    Tobias Werner

    Hallo Tobias,

    schön das du den Weg zu uns gefunden hast. Wie du bereits geschrieben hattest, konnte im laufe der Zeit bereits sehr viel zu dieser Einheit zusammengetragen werden. Ich glaube aber eher weniger, dass man hierzu noch genauere Infos finden kann aber vieleicht kann dir Hanna oder Igor noch weitere Tipps geben.


    Gruß
    Michael


    Hallo Tobias


    In Igors Bericht sind die letzten Stationen (Causeni Richtung Leova) eines Teils der Einheit verzeichnet. Es gibt in Kishinau den "Eternity" Komplex, mit dem Mahnmal. Ansonsten habe ich nur in Transnistrien einen T34 gesehen.


    Wie Michael schon sagte, er hat die meisten Informationen über die Einheit hier zusammengeführt. Dafür bin ich ihm sehr dankbar.


    Was einen Kontakt betrifft, vielleicht wendest du dich an den Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge, die haben mir im Sommer 2016 einen Länderbeauftragten für Litauen genannt, der mir vor Ort einiges gezeigt hat. (Litauen 2016 - Eine Reise an die Memel und zurück) Ich vermute, dass es auch in der Republik Moldau Verbindungsleute gibt, die euch etwas zeigen können.


    Ich halte am 18. Mai für den Volksbund in Hessen einen Vortrag über diese Recherche, wie gesagt, sie sind europaweit vernetzt. (Falls es interessiert, würde ich den Vortrag hier nach dem 18. Mai einstellen).


    Viele Grüße


    Hanna

    Hallo


    anbei die Einladung vom Landesverband des Volksbunds, die Geschäftsführerin Frau Krause hat mir geschrieben, dass man sich sehr freue, wenn ich in meinem persönlichen und beruflichen Umfeld auf die Veranstaltung und meinen Vortrag aufmerksam mache.


    Vielleicht gibt es ja Interessenten, die an diesem Tag nach Frankfurt kommen würden. Es ist auch eine Diskussion mit Schülern geplant.

    Guten Abend


    gestern war die Präsentation und die Diskussion. Nach meinem Vortrag war es erstmal total ruhig, auch die Moderatorin brauchte einen Moment. Mein Plädoyer, dass junge Menschen auch mal nach Vilnius oder Breslau oder Odessa reisen sollten, weil auch das Europa ist, führte zu interessanten Fragen. Und auch die Frage nach der Haltung. Als es vorbei war, kam eine Frau und sagte, sie zittere immer noch, ihr Großvater sei "irgendwo am Pruth verschollen", als es in Kriegsgefangenschaft ging. Sie habe die Feldpost ihrer Großeltern, er war in der 282. und die Briefe hätte nichts gutes ahnen lassen. Aber jetzt die Fakten mal zu sehen, auch wenn es nur exemplarisch für eine Einheit sei, das würde sie sehr berühren.


    Danke an Dich, Michael, für die riesige Unterstützung, das wäre ohne dich nicht möglich gewesen.


    Falls Interesse besteht, kann ich die Präsentation hier auch einstellen ...


    grüße


    Hanna

    Hallo Hanna,


    erstmal vielen Dank für das Feedback zu deiner Präsentation. Wie ich deinen Ausführungen entnehme, hat sie wohl bei den Beteiligten für richtiges Interesse und Betrofffenheit gesorgt.


    Ich finde es wirklich ausgesprochen gut, dass du dich dazu bereit erklärt hast, diese Aufgabe zu übernehmen und umzusetzen. :)


    Also mich persönlich würde es sehr freuen, wenn du die Inhalte hier einstellen würdest. Allerdings mußt du aller Wahrscheinlichkeit nach, dass Format wechseln bzw. von den betr. Seiten Screenshots machen, damit du sie hier hochladen kannst.

    Zitat von Hanna Hartmann

    Danke an Dich, Michael, für die riesige Unterstützung, das wäre ohne dich nicht möglich gewesen.

    vielen Dank für die freundlichen Worte Hanna, dass habe ich sehr gerne gemacht!


    Gruß
    Michael

    Hallo Michael


    okay, hab das PDF in JPGs umgewandelt. Hoffe, dass man alles erkennen kann.


    Hier die Fotos (Seite 1-10)


    Hanna