Hans Tursky, Gefreiter

    Good Morning


    thank you very much for this link. But can you help me please, I cannot copy the Website to translate the Russian informations.


    Greetings


    Hanna

    Hallo Michael


    danke nochmals für die vielen Infos. Und sorry, wenn ich mich nicht mehr gemeldet hatte, Familie, Weihnachten usw. Anfang des Jahres war ich in Prag, um eine weitere Geschichte aufzuarbeiten, aber da schreibe ich noch etwas.


    Also nochmals danke nachträglich und ein gutes 2019 hier im Forum.


    herzlichst


    Hanna

    Hello synergy,

    Zitat von synergy

    For me interesting august 1944 - 19.08.44...28.08.44

    thank you the feedback. I'll see if it can find something for you. But you probably have to wait a good week because I will not get my data in the next few days. I will contact you again. Finally, a small note on how to deal with our forum and its rules. I would like to ask you to always write a salutation or a concluding salutation for upcoming contributions. In addition, we always work here with data attachments with an indication of the source, ie which book or which page etc.


    Many Thanks!


    greeting
    Michael

    Hallo Hanna,

    Zitat von Hanna Hartmann

    danke nochmals für die vielen Infos. Und sorry, wenn ich mich nicht mehr gemeldet hatte, Familie, Weihnachten usw. Anfang des Jahres war ich in Prag, um eine weitere Geschichte aufzuarbeiten, aber da schreibe ich noch etwas.


    Also nochmals danke nachträglich und ein gutes 2019 hier im Forum.

    dass ist natürlich kein Problem, gerne geschehen. Es freut mich aber wieder von dir lesen zu können, zumal wir ja offensichtlich noch jemanden gefunden haben, der uns ggf. noch weitere Infos geben kann.


    Gruß
    Michael

    Zitat von Wehrmachtlexikon

    Hello synergy,

    thank you the feedback. I'll see if it can find something for you. But you probably have to wait a good week because I will not get my data in the next few days. I will contact you again. Finally, a small note on how to deal with our forum and its rules. I would like to ask you to always write a salutation or a concluding salutation for upcoming contributions. In addition, we always work here with data attachments with an indication of the source, ie which book or which page etc.
    Many Thanks!


    greeting
    Michael

    Hello Michael,


    Thank you for your comment.
    I will try to follow the rules of the forum.
    Now for the sources of information. As you can see - some of the materials from NARA. Some of my collection. In particular, the map of the august 1944 breakthrough sector in Bessarabia. On the log of hostilities AOK.6 indicated source. Russian documents from the Russian Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense. I also collect aerial photographs of combat positions and battle places of AOK.6 for 1944 in Bessarabia.


    Best regards,


    Igor (synergy)

    Hanna hello!


    I want to tell you the following. s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.93 from the spring of 1944 was on the sector of 52 Army Corps as reserve, and was part of the "Seeadler" group. At the same time, the 52nd corps was part of the "von Knobelsdorf" group, named by the name of the general, who commanded until April 1944 40 panzer corps. The "Seeadler" group was deployed on the basis of the AOK.6 Assault Battalion. The assault battalion participated in almost all of the most difficult combat operations of the 6th German army in the spring of 1944. And all these operations were carried out on the Kishinev direction - on the sector of the "von Knobelsdorf" group. There were 2 serious military clashes on 10 ... 13 May 1944 - Operation DONNERSCHLAG (defeat of the 8th Guards Army of General Chuikov) and 14 ... 24 May 1944 - significant defeat of 5th shock Army of General Tsvetaev - part of Tsvetaev's army was surrounded and mostly destroyed . Both of these operations were carried out at the limit of the capabilities of the German 6th army, and in both operations the German forces were less than the Russians. That is why the Russian breakthrough to Chisinau in May, June and until the end of August became impossible.
    In German documents, the commander of the Assault Battalion, AOK.6, is characterized as a very worthy and brave commander. And the battalion itself is like a well-coordinated combat unit capable of performing the most difficult missions.
    On August 19, the "Seeadler" group was sent to the sector of a possible Russian breakthrough without s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.93, but with s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.661. Why this happened, I have not yet found out. On August 20, one battery of s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.93 approached the Causeni, and took up defenses near the city on the expansion line of sectors 306 and 15 infantry divisions. Near and to the south there was a defensive 306 infantry division, the 13th division, and the "Seeadler" group a little further to the south-east. All these parts did everything to hold back the blow of a superior opponent for 2 days. However, alongside, in the area of the 21 Romanian division, the defense breakthrough was so deep, that the risk of being surrounded was maximized. Therefore, including the defenders did not see the point and could no longer hold the position. The departure has begun. Part of the defenders went west towards Leovo, part, including the AOK6 assault battalion - to the north-west. Why he was there is also a question. The XIV penal battalion of 999, which was in positions of 306 infantry division, was destroyed, and the 500 penal battalion, which also held defenses in sector of 306 infantry division, suffered losses (up to about 50% of the battalion’s personnel) but still fought with everyone and later its remnants turned out to be close to residues AOK6.
    Interesting, that the commander of the AOK6 and probably some of his soldiers were able to leave the encirclement. The commander of the AOK6 went through the whole war, had many high awards, and died in the 70s of the last century.
    Everything about what I wrote can be followed, including maps and battle schemes. I will show them.


    Regards,


    Synergy

    Hallo Igor


    thank you very much for all, you wrote about the "s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.93".


    So I have more Information about the fate of my Grandfather Hans Tursky (14.12.1912 Königsberg - 05.03.1984 in Munich). He was a driver in one of the tanks of this unit from 24.09.1942 until 24.08.1944. At that day, he went to captivity. In the paper of the "Wehrmacht Information Office" I received, they said, that his last location was "Leova". In the request for compensation for captivity, he wrote in 1955, that he was captured in Kishinau, then brougth to Worowschilowgrad until August 1947, then brought to Kajewka until 24th of October 1947 and then sent back to Frankfurt/Oder on 19th of November in 1947. He returned with Olga, his Russian girlfriend, so my grandmother asked him to divorce. So Therefore I don´t have any picture of him until today. And either not much information. But I started to travel "into the past of my family" since 2012. So I went to Kishinau/Odessa and Tiraspol in 2018. Here the story, if you are interested.


    You wrote something about "von Knobelsdorf" group, ".. and that the "Seeadler" group participated in almost all of the most difficult combat operations of the 6th German army in spring 1944. And then, on August 19, the "Seeadler" group was sent to the sector of a possible Russian breakthrough without s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.93, ... Why this happened, I have not yet found out."


    In the NARA Papers, may be there are some hints, what have happend before.


    1. On 23rd of September 2018, Michael wrote here in this thread, that he found relatively detailed status report on the Panzerjäger division of 1 August 1944. Lieutenant-General Hans de Salengre-Drabbe reports on 1 August that the heavy Pz.Jg.Abt.93 is "fully operational", although the superior Major Schwartz judges that the unit is only "conditionally fit for attack". May be this leads to the point, one battery of s.H.Pz.Jg.Abt.93 approached the Causeni? In your report, I translated, there are problems with fuel. But what, if there were too many mules were missing?


    2. There was also the point, that the Romanians stopped fighting at that days, so the German troups could no longer hold their positions. ... Wikipedia : "... On 23 August 1944 under the leadership of the Romanian King Michael I carried out overthrow in the Kingdom of Romania. The result was the end of the military dictatorship of Marshal Ion Antonescu and the military alliance with the German Reich, whose defeat became apparent in the Second World War. The breakthrough sites selected by the Red Army were those defended by the less combatable and prepared Romanian units. Commander-in-Chief of Army Group South Ukraine, Johannes Frießner, took over command of all German units stationed in Romania on the late evening of 23 August. After the radio address of King Michael, he called Hitler at 11 pm and informed him about the situation. Hitler was extremely displeased with the events in Bucharest; he gave the order to Frießner to occupy Bucharest, to install a new government, and to arrest King Michael and his court. ... Frießner described in his memoirs that he had been convinced of the impracticability of the order."


    At the end you write: "Interesting, that the commander of the AOK6 and probably some of his soldiers were able to leave the encirclement." Yes, that´s interesting. But could you help me to find something about my Grandfather in Russian Archives, what had happened to those Germans, who survived Jassy-Kishinau and went to war captivity in Russia?


    Thanks a lot


    Hanna

    Hallo Hanna!


    The events of August 1944 are interesting to me, and I gradually collect information from all possible sources to clarify the details of the fighting. So we find out what was there.
    I am writing a book about the war in Bessarabia in 1944. These are military adventures. And the main character in it is German. Therefore, the documents are very interesting to me and the order of events is also important. Everything should be interesting and documented as much as possible.


    Regards,


    Igor

    Hallo Igor


    thank you for this informations.


    may be that there is another point of interest, that has to do with the change of the Colonel General Ferdinand Schörner at that time in Bessarabia.


    In another board here in the forum are some documents (Mentalität des GFM Schörner in Dokumenten), that can be interesting for your book. A German Magazin called SPIEGEL wrote in 1955 a bigger essay about him.


    Regards


    Hanna

    Hallo Igor


    thank you for the documents, I think, that Michael found this already.


    I have a question, can you help me, to find some documents in Russian Archives (I don´t know where), to find out something about the time of my Grandfathers time as Prisoner of war?


    regards


    Hanna

    Zitat von synergy

    Hallo Hanna!


    The events of August 1944 .... And the main character in it is German. Therefore, the documents are very interesting to me ....

    Hallo Igor, only one question, whom do you mean with "main character" ... von Knobelsdorff?


    Someone told me, that there is the


    Military Archiv
    Rossijskij Gosudarstvennij Voennij Archiv
    ul. Admirala Makarova 29 RU-125212,
    Moskva Russia/Rossiskaja Federazija


    but the mails I sent in March 2018, came back or were not answered until today (with the attachment). I asked a friend, who went to a Russian course in Moskau in summer, to ask their teacher for a Russian translation. But it did not work out. So may be you know, whom I can sent this letter, to get more information about Hans Tursky.



    I asked the following (in German)



    ---- snip ---



    Anfrage auf Einsicht in die Unterlagen meines Großvaters Hans Joachim Tursky in sowjetischer Kriegsgefangenschaft (1944-1947)


    Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren


    im Rahmen der Recherche für die Erstellung meiner Abstammungsunterlagen bitte ich Sie um nachfolgende Auskunft:


    Mein Großvater Hans Joachim Tursky, geboren am 14.12.1912 in Königsberg (Nr. 2994/1912), verstorben am 05.03.1984 in München, war in 1. Ehe mit meiner Großmutter Magdalena Wally Wiesner, geboren am 08.10.1919 in Weißstein, verstorben am 22.03.2012 in Gutenberg, verheiratet (Potsdam Standesamt Nr. 162/1938). Sie lebten in der Wollnerstraße 19 (heute Otto Nagel Straße) in Potsdam, dort wurde mein Vater Hans-Werner Tursky am 14.07.1938 (Geburtsurkunde 1037/1838) geboren.


    Vom 01.09.1942 bis zum 24.08.1944 war mein Großvater laut Aktenauskunft der Deutschen Dienststelle WASt, (siehe Anlage) in der Wehrmacht und ist am 24.09.1944 im Einsatzraum Leova in Kriegsgefangenschaft genommen worden. In einem Antrag auf Gewährung einer Entschädigung (Nr. 397546) beschreibt er, dass er am 26.08.1944 von Kishinew (heute Moldawien) nach Worowschilowgrad (heute Lugansk) gebracht wurde und dort bis August 1947 inhaftiert war. Von August 1947 bis 24.10.1947 war er in Kajewka (heute Stachanow) in Kriegsgefangenschaft. Am 13.11.1947 ist er aus der sowjetischen Kriegsgefangenschaft entlassen worden.


    Nach seiner Rückkehr aus der Kriegsgefangenschaft ist die Ehe meiner Großeltern am 10.10.1949 vom Landgericht Amberg (Nr.396/49) geschieden worden. Meine Großmutter hat vor ihrem Tod einmal gesagt, "er habe damals Olga aus Russland mitgebracht" und sie am 10. Juni 1950 in zweiter Ehe in München geheiratet. Olga Bayer geb. Elving, geboren am 6. Februar 1912 in Petersburg (Russland) ist damals Schneiderin gewesen und hat mit ihm in München bis zu seinem Tod gelebt.


    Ich habe nun folgende Bitte, gibt es Unterlagen aus der Zeit der Kriegsgefangenschaft meines Großvaters Hans Joachim Tursky, die Sie mir in Kopie zusenden könnten. Und an wen kann ich mich wenden, um Auskunft über seine 2. Frau, Olga Beyer, geborene Elving zu bekommen? Leider haben mir meine Großmutter und auch mein Vater bis heute jegliche Auskunft über meinen Großvater verweigert. Ich habe bis heute kein Foto von ihm gesehen. Alles, was ich heute von ihm weiß, ist die Auskunft der WASt vom 17.07.2015. Vielleicht können Sie mir weiterhelfen bei meiner Recherche. Für die Unkosten dieser Recherche komme ich selbstverständlich auf.


    Vielen Dank


    mit freundlichen Grüßen


    --- snip ---

    Hanna, good evening!


    If I understand you correctly, you want to receive a copy of the documents from the prisoner of war camp and information about your grandfather's second wife.
    Olga was an ethnic German?
    On Olga's question there can be difficulties - there is no complete information about her. Also interesting is the question - how she was released from the USSR? Under Stalin, it was a very difficult question to solve. It is likely that the decision on Olga was taken in the Ministry of State Security.
    By the way, I have a unique book in 2 volumes on German soldiers who died and captured in Bessarabia. The circulation of the book is about 200 copies or less. It was presented to me by my friend, one of the leaders of the Police Academy of Moldova. These are 2 volumes, about 500 pages each, the format is a bit less than A3.
    In the summer I will come to Chisinau and look in this book about your grandfather.


    Tomorrow I will talk with friends, and I will find out if any of them were engaged in similar issues.


    Regards,


    Igor